<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 27.10.2013 04:52, schrieb Mike
Jones:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B168042967394377E13926@TK5EX14MBXC286.redmond.corp.microsoft.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One
possibility that comes to mind is saying that if “jti” is
included, it signals that the JWT is single-use. What do
people think of that possibility?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
we use "jti" that way. So I like this idea :-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B168042967394377E13926@TK5EX14MBXC286.redmond.corp.microsoft.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
do people expect the “normal” use of these JWTs to be?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
-- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Brian Campbell [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com">mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Bradley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mike Jones; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] "jti" claim in
client_secret_jwt and private_key_jwt JWTs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Not so
fast. The same assertion could be used multiple times
and, because it'll have a relatively short validity
window, it will still have significantly better security
characteristics than a password. Which is true for both
self-signed and 3rd party issued assertions. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Yes,
single use is better than that but enforcing single use
places a significant operational burden on the AS. I don't
believe the tradeoff is worth it for client auth over a
direct TLS connection to the AS.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the AS has the option of enforcing
one-time use assertions but no way for the client to
discover the requirement, then you'll have introp problems
(or overly complex and probably buggy retry code on the
client).
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:25 PM, John
Bradley <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Self signed assertions must be
single use. That is the point of using them vs a
password. If you use the same assertion multiple
times it is a password. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are reasons to re use a third
party assertion, but it has the same security as a
password. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Oct 25, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Mike Jones <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"
target="_blank">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
spec currently says this about JWTs used for
client_secret_jwt and private_key_jwt:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="EN">jti</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="EN">REQUIRED.
JWT ID. A unique identifier for the token.
The JWT ID MAY be used by implementations
requiring message de-duplication for
one-time use assertions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Brian
asked us to drop the sentence “<span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="EN">The JWT ID MAY be used by
implementations requiring message
de-duplication for one-time use assertions</span>”
in both cases.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A
few questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>1.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Why
is “jti” required?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>2.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>How
do we expect it to normally be used?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>3.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Would
it be typical for assertions to be for
one-time use in our use cases?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>4.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>How
would a client know whether an assertion is
for one-time use?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>5.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Should
“jti” only be present if the assertion is for
one-time use?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>6.<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Should
it be required at all?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">
-- Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>