[Openid-specs-ab] More on federation and control

Mike Jones Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
Tue Jul 31 20:03:32 UTC 2018


Mike S.’s and Filip’s review comments on the spec were editorial in nature.  Read them here:

  *   http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/Week-of-Mon-20180604/006789.html
  *   http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/Week-of-Mon-20180604/006790.html
  *   http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/Week-of-Mon-20180604/006791.html

No specific normative changes were asked for.  It’s fine to perform editorial updates after the IPR vote since they don’t change the IPR status of the spec at all.

Yes, Mike S. also made sweeping statements along the lines of “I wouldn’t do it this way” but he hasn’t produced a concrete alternative to consider to make these comments actionable (unlike Andreas Solberg, who has).

                                                                -- Mike

From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt at oracle.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:54 PM
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>
Cc: Mike Schwartz <mike at gluu.org>; openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net; Don Thibeau <don at oidf.org>
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] More on federation and control

Mike J

These comments should be addressed prior to implementation.  The implementation vote should NOT occur until you have published a draft everyone agrees upon.

Working on a promise is not really appropriate given the group is entertaining a major legal decision on IPR — especially if the IPR might change in fundamental ways.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services Architect
@independentid
www.independentid.com<http://www.independentid.com>
phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>


On Jul 31, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>> wrote:

Mike S., this may be your perception, but it isn't the reality.  As for your comments, they were acknowledged will be addressed, per https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.openid.net_pipermail_openid-2Dspecs-2Dab_Week-2Dof-2DMon-2D20180611_006794.html&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=na5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3k1gx6gKCjLJXE0LJKbMCGFMDVhtorauMwKSCeYzf9w&s=lc4KpjSWBxht4HO1NR-CtE9YZe28VkcjhwwCXCJSnV4&e=. You know that.  The working group and the foundation have always been strongly consensus-based, with all participant's contributions being acted upon to by the working groups.

If you want to drive consensus about specific changes, write them up and come talk about them in the working group.  That's a far more effective means of driving consensus than sending e-mail after e-mail saying that you don't like what's there but not proposing specific, concrete alternatives.

                                                                -- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net>> On Behalf Of Mike Schwartz via Openid-specs-ab
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:36 PM
To: openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
Subject: [Openid-specs-ab] More on federation and control

I wasn't going to comment any more on this, because I didn't want to belabor the point.

But at the same time, I want to make it clear that I don't feel like my issues were addressed. My actual experience was more like "crickets chirping" on federation. The responses were so meager, and few and far between, that it hardly qualified as any kind of discussion. I just stopped commenting because it seemed futile--and that says a lot, because I'm always up for a losing battle! Look at this one!

I still contend that the federation spec is a problematic precedent for the Connect WG. You have a majority of the WG participants who don't care about the spec. Their lack of comments is interpreted as assent. So if there are five people really working on a spec, and four of them don't agree with the editor, they can be "outvoted" (whether or not the vote even happens).

I think the right way to handle the federation spec would have been to make a sub-group for the spec (not it's own WG... that seems like too much). And the participants in that sub-group could have discussed the spec more efficiently--without wasting the time of the people who don't care about federation, and without wasting the federation people's time who don't care about all the other stuff the Connect WG does.

I wasn't going to comment any more because what's really clear is that the current leadership doesn't want to give the community more control.
And maybe that's the whole point of OIDF. A standards organization that looks and smells like a standards organization, but is actually an easier place to get things done the way the editors like, without all the messiness of consensus and forced collaboration.

- Mike Schwartz
CEO Gluu

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