[Openid-specs-ab] What is a contributor?

Mike Schwartz mike at gluu.org
Sat Jul 28 13:55:29 UTC 2018


Mike J,

Thanks for putting this together. It does make the process easier to 
find. I think further clarification is needed, but I'll just nit-pick 
one issue for now to keep the scope of this discussion short.

"Consensus should reflect the opinion of a majority of Contributors"

Here is one of my main objections regarding the federation spec: How are 
contributors defined?

Perhaps you are defining contributors as the whole Connect WG. I would 
define contributors to the Federation spec much more narrowly. 
Federation is a niche interest. To many of the corporate and consumer WG 
participants, this is not an important use case. So the idea that you 
could define a large group of contributors leads to the potential for a 
niche issue to be pushed through without the the proper governance and 
oversight--you could say that someone's silence is assent, when it 
really just means they don't care.

I think it would have been prudent to form a sub-WG of interested 
parties, and define that sub-group as the Contributors.

If we had done this for the federation spec, it would also have been 
more respectful of people's time, and we could have recruited a wider 
group of qualified people, enabling us to have a real discussion on the 
topic.

There are certainly many qualified people who could have helped. Andreas 
Solberg just proposed his own federation design--he obviously has some 
thoughts on this topic. Maybe we could have convinced Leif, Rainer, 
Keith, Judith, GTRI and others with deep knowledge of federation to 
participate. UK Open Banking might be the first federation due to their 
adoption of Connect, and their de facto position as a central authority 
that vets participants. We could have asked for their help. Had that 
happened, and a real discussion ensued of the design, I would have 
certainly been willing to accept the draft moving forward as a 
recommendation for implementation.

- Mike

------------------------
Michael Schwartz
Gluu
Founder / CEO
mike at gluu.org
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nynymike/

On 2018-07-28 07:00, openid-specs-ab-request at lists.openid.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Reform OpenID Connect (Mike Jones)
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> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 23:44:04 +0000
> From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>
> To: "openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net"
> 	<openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> Cc: Don Thibeau <don at oidf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Reform OpenID Connect
> Message-ID:
> 	<SN6PR00MB03013327F1C0B50F64721688F52A0 at SN6PR00MB0301.namprd00.prod.outlook.com>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I've written the promised "How do working groups work"? page
> http://openid.net/wg/about/ - as announced at
> http://openid.net/2018/07/27/how-do-working-groups-work/ and
> https://twitter.com/openid/status/1022986802754289665.  Thanks to Nat
> Sakimura, Adam Dawes, Carla Roncato, and Don Thibeau for their
> contributions to the content.  Hopefully this FAQ will be useful to
> working group participants new and old and help people most
> effectively participate in the OpenID working group processes.
> 
> 				Best wishes,
> 				-- Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net> On
> Behalf Of Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 12:24 PM
> To: Mike Schwartz <mike at gluu.org>
> Cc: openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net; Don Thibeau <don at oidf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Reform OpenID Connect
> 
> What is discussed at the working group meetings is up to those who
> show up.  What's been said about the Federation spec at the meetings
> is mostly that it appears to be on track, based on feedback from
> large-scale federation experts and early implementers.  If you have a
> different viewpoint and want to advocate specific changes, you could
> show up and we'll have a discussion about that.
> 
> But complaining about process now when you haven't attended working
> group discussions to express your viewpoint seems a bit
> counterproductive.
> 
> 				-- Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Schwartz <mike at gluu.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 12:15 PM
> To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>
> Cc: openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net; Don Thibeau <don at oidf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Reform OpenID Connect
> 
> Mike J,
> 
> According to the minutes, not much time is devoted to the federation
> topic at the meetings and on the calls. When I pointed this out in my
> email to the board, on 7/17, you inferred that this is
> normal--discussion happened on the mailing list:
> 
> On 2018-07-17 10:32, Mike Jones wrote:
>> Substantive discussion happened on the mailing list
> 
> Now it seems like we're switching back to the meetings (and calls I 
> guess).
> 
> At a higher level, the clear lack of consensus on the federation spec
> that existed before the vote is a red flag that the process is broken,
> and needs reform.
> 
> As Don says in his blog: "Vote early and often":
> http://www.donthibeau.com/vote-early-and-often/
> 
> Let's make that a reality.
> 
> - Mike S
> 
> -----------------------
> Michael Schwartz
> Gluu
> Founder / CEO
> mike at gluu.org
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/nynymike/
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