[Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1229: Adoption of the "OpenID Connect for W3C Verifiable Credential Objects" (openid/connect)

Tom Jones thomasclinganjones at gmail.com
Mon May 10 16:29:12 UTC 2021


I have a problem when using ccg definitions with the existing standards.
This is openID not ccg.

I don't believe that your definition of claim matches the existing use in
computer security or in common language.  Per m-w
a: a right to somethingspecifically : a title to a debt, privilege, or
other thing in the possession of anotherThe bank has a claim on their house.
b: an assertion *open to challenge*a claim of authenticityadvertisers'
extravagant claims

Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom


On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:00 AM David Chadwick via Openid-specs-ab <
openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> We do not need to provide definitions as they already exist in the W3C VC
> Data Model Recommendation, so we can simply reference them. They are:
>
>
> claim An assertion made about a subject
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-subjects>. credential A set of
> one or more claims <https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-claims> made
> by an issuer <https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-issuers>. A verifiable
> credential is a tamper-evident credential that has authorship that can be
> cryptographically verified.
>
> You will note that the W3C recommendation does not say anything about what
> the assertion may be, but if you look it up in a dictionary you will get
> something like
>
> Assertion - a positive statement or declaration, often without support or
> reason
>
> Please tell me what is unclear about the above
>
> Kind regards
>
> David
>
>
> On 10/05/2021 16:36, Tom Jones via Openid-specs-ab wrote:
>
> And I find the lack of clarity to be extremely rude and disrespectful of
> any sort of meaningful conversation about the issues. If you have a better
> definition of claim, please let us hear it.
>
> thx ..Tom (mobile)
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2021, 8:28 AM Oliver Terbu via Openid-specs-ab <
> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> This is another example of an extremely rude and disrespectful tone by
>> the same person:
>>
>> "I want clarity of language. Right now we just have a claim = some crap
>> and credential = a pile of crap."
>> http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2021-May/008233.html
>>
>> Oliver
>>
>> On Mon, 10 May 2021 at 14:39, Kristina Yasuda via Openid-specs-ab <
>> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Nat.
>>>
>>> As promised, I wanted to outline the relationship between "OpenID
>>> Connect for W3C Verifiable Credential Objects" (OIDC4VCO) draft and other
>>> existing drafts. (point 2 in this issue)
>>> ※ Note that there was a proposal to rename the draft  "OpenID Connect
>>> for W3C Verifiable Presentations", but I will use OIDC4VCO abbreviation
>>> for now.
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Relationship with OpenID Connect Core: OIDC4VCO uses mechanisms
>>>    already defined in OIDC Core, and does not introduce any breaking changes.
>>>    - Relationship with SIOP V2 draft: SIOP V2 draft will refer to the
>>>    OIDC4VCO draft wrt how W3C verifiable presentations (VPs) can be
>>>    transported using SIOP model, since OIDC4VCO draft defines a generic way
>>>    how W3C VPs can be used with various OIDC flows including SIOP V2.
>>>    - Relationship with Claims Aggregation draft (and Credential
>>>    Provider draft once contributed): these drafts will be used by the OP to
>>>    receive credentials from the Claims Provider, so that the OP will be able
>>>    to present received credentials to the RP using OIDC4VCO draft. These
>>>    drafts should be aligned as much as possible.
>>>    - Relationship with DIF Presentation Exchange (PE) draft: DIF PE
>>>    draft could be used as part of the request syntax in OIDC4VCO draf, which
>>>    can be discussed once OIDC4VCO draft is adopted. DIF PE is a query language
>>>    that is protocol agnostic, and it does not replace OIDC4VCO draft.
>>>
>>> This is an initial summary and additional input from the editors/working
>>> group is very welcome.
>>>
>>> A work item to enable transporting W3C VPs using OpenID Connect, will
>>> most likely not be successful outside OpenID Foundation AB/C Working Group,
>>> because that is where the collective OpenID Connect expertise resides.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Kristina
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *差出人:* Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net> が Nat
>>> via Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> の代理で送信
>>> *送信日時:* 2021年5月7日 0:55
>>> *宛先:* openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
>>> >
>>> *CC:* Nat <issues-reply at bitbucket.org>
>>> *件名:* [Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1229: Adoption of the "OpenID Connect
>>> for W3C Verifiable Credential Objects" (openid/connect)
>>>
>>> New issue 1229: Adoption of the "OpenID Connect for W3C Verifiable
>>> Credential Objects"
>>>
>>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fissues%2F1229%2Fadoption-of-the-openid-connect-for-w3c&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036105710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=v8JUcUVcU4A%2FlkpyB43J2%2B9DB9axNOyOGjmQAe5GU58%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nat Sakimura:
>>>
>>> SIOP SC recommended the adoption of “[OpenID Connect for W3C Verifiable
>>> Credential Objects](
>>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.openid.net%2Fpipermail%2Fopenid-specs-ab%2Fattachments%2F20210505%2Fa198527a%2Fattachment-0001.pdf&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036105710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LdCCcQ1tptJ290hqLdPsJdDWACLjeswgOwEKvhBi%2FyM%3D&reserved=0)”
>>> \[1\] as a working group item.
>>>
>>> \[1\] [
>>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.openid.net%2Fpipermail%2Fopenid-specs-ab%2Fattachments%2F20210505%2Fa198527a%2Fattachment-0001.pdf&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036115666%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=38hwxalY%2FRk1ypItq%2Bnxnhd26OE4uUJ79XUm1T8DVNw%3D&reserved=0](https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.openid.net%2Fpipermail%2Fopenid-specs-ab%2Fattachments%2F20210505%2Fa198527a%2Fattachment-0001.pdf&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036115666%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=38hwxalY%2FRk1ypItq%2Bnxnhd26OE4uUJ79XUm1T8DVNw%3D&reserved=0
>>> )
>>>
>>> Some concerns were expressed by a few WG members.
>>>
>>> This ticket is to give an opportunity for those members to express their
>>> concerns and proposers to reply to them.
>>>
>>> There are a few criteria for non-adoption of documents: namely
>>>
>>> 1. If the draft does not fall into the scope of the WG.
>>> 2. If the draft is overlapping with existing drafts, the technical
>>> content should be raised as an issue and eventually result in PR rather
>>> than starting a new draft.
>>>
>>>     1. NOTE: A non-overlapping portion can be made as an independent
>>> document so proposers should consider creating such.
>>>
>>> 3. If there is a legal or reputational risk for the OIDF in adopting the
>>> document. \(The board may intervene on this ground.\)
>>>
>>> If the issues are only on the technical nature of the proposed draft
>>> that does not fall into the above criteria, then, it should be dealt with
>>> during and after the adoption of the document.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
>>>
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