[OpenID] [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group

Mike Jones Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
Wed Dec 24 06:36:37 UTC 2008


Thus far I believe that only David and I have weighed in on this.  Before I jump in again, I’d be interested in knowing the views of Johnny, Brad, Dick, Josh, and Allen.

What do the other 5 of you have to say about this proposal?

                                                                Thanks,
                                                                -- Mike

From: Sakimura Nat [mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:29 PM
To: Sakimura Nat; David Recordon; Mike Jones
Cc: general at openid.net; specs-council at openid.net
Subject: RE: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group

P.S. Below, I used the word "Algorithm" but it is not referring to something akin to RSA-SHA1 etc. Rather, it is the method to create a signature base string from a subset of the tag-values in OpenID message. Word such as "scheme" may be more appropriate.

Nat Sakimura (=nat)

________________________________
差出人: specs-council-bounces at openid.net [specs-council-bounces at openid.net] は Sakimura Nat [n-sakimura at nri.co.jp] の代理
送信日時: 2008年12月24日 9:10
宛先: David Recordon; Mike Jones
CC: general at openid.net; specs-council at openid.net
件名: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
Thanks.

I did not know that specs-council list is actually subscribable.
I now have subscribed to it.

>From what I see from the archive, the biggest objection seems to be the signature.

> "A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't it already
> defined how to sign chunks of XML?  Why would the working group be developing
> a new signature mechanism?
Let me explain on it.

CX is not XML based. It is tag-value based. I do not think there is any generalized public key based signature algorithm that enables one to sign tag-value based on name spaces. What is defined in OAuth comes close, but it needs generalization as it is specific to OAuth. If there s a generalized such method, please point it to me. I understand that AuthN 2.1 would be looking at doing it. However, it is not there yet so it cannot be cited. Once it gets citable, I envision that it will be citing it instead of incorporating it into the CX spec.

For other points, it would be appreciated very much if you could explicitly state the points. Then, I would be replying to them.

By the way, from the process point, I believe that the specs council needs to be stating one of the reason stated in "4.2 Review". It needs to be one of

(a)    an incomplete Proposal (i.e., failure to comply with §4.1);

(b)    a determination that the proposal contravenes the OpenID community's purpose;

(c)     a determination that the proposed WG does not have sufficient support to succeed
         or to deliver proposed deliverables within projected completion dates; or

(d)    a  determination that the proposal is likely to cause legal liability for the OIDF or others.

On what point the current proposal falls into?

Regards,

=nat



________________________________
差出人: David Recordon [recordond at gmail.com]
送信日時: 2008年12月24日 2:54
宛先: Mike Jones
CC: Sakimura Nat; specs-council at openid.net
件名: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
I think that's a reasonable recommendation, though would like to first approach Nat to see if the charter can be made to address these concerns and then resubmitted for review.

--David
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:

I have to agree with David that this charter is far from minimal or specific in many respects.  One of my concerns is the same as David's below - when XMLDSIG and other signature algorithms already exist, it is incumbent upon the proposers to justify the creation of yet another, incompatible signature algorithm.



It is therefore my recommendation that the specifications council communicate something like this position to the membership to guide their vote about this working group:



The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that members reject this proposal to create a working group because the charter is excessively broad, it seems to propose the creation of new mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways to do accomplish existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it the proposal is not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon existing mechanisms such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or whether it requires breaking changes to these underlying protocols.



We, as a specs council, have an obligation to promptly produce a recommendation prior to the membership vote.  My stab at our recommendation is above.  Wordsmithing welcome.  If you disagree, please supply alternate wording that you think we should use instead.



                                                                -- Mike





From: David Recordon [mailto:recordond at gmail.com<mailto:recordond at gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Nat Sakimura
Cc: Mike Jones; specs-council at openid.net<mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group



To update Nat's note, the proposal is actually at http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1 (the wiki doesn't like periods in URLs).

While the number of specifications listed has been reduced, it still feels nebulous in terms of what will be produced as laid out by the purpose and scope.  For example, the scope says that the working group will develop "A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't it already defined how to sign chunks of XML?  Why would the working group be developing a new signature mechanism?

--David

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Nat Sakimura <n-sakimura at nri.co.jp<mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>> wrote:

The most current version is here: http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1.0

Since AX 2.0 WG is spinning up, I have removed it from the possible output of this WG.

=nat

Mike Jones wrote:

Forwarding this note to the list to kick off the actual specs council work on this spec…

[Deleted the rest of the thread to bring the message below the current 40K list size limit]



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