<div dir="ltr">Thanks Mike. <br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-08-12 11:54 GMT+09:00 Mike Jones <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Here’s my comments on your proposed actions:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in">1. Declare clearly in <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">
http://openid.net/specs/</a> that HTML files are authoritative and others are not. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We could do this in a readme.txt file there.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Is there any problem in putting the text as proposed in my original email? </div>
<div>If so, what is the problem? </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in">2. Remove all XML files from <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">
http://openid.net/specs/</a>. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I strongly oppose doing this. The files provide useful documentation on what has changed between versions. They’re a lot easier to diff than the outputs.
Also, we could lose <a href="http://svn.openid.net" target="_blank">svn.openid.net</a> at some point, which is the only other place that these source files are authoritatively recorded for the foundation.</span></p></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, <a href="http://hg.openid.net">hg.openid.net</a> is an official and authoritative source as well, per OpenID IPR Policy. </div><div>Yes, bitbucket may disappear at some point, but then we should put the mercurial repo at another host with the same name. </div>
<div>That's why it was important to have it in *.<a href="http://openid.net">openid.net</a>. </div><div>In essence, we should not lose <a href="http://hg.openid.net">hg.openid.net</a> and <a href="http://svn.openid.net">svn.openid.net</a> as long as OIDF persists. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I am OK with generated .txt in addition to .html to be there, but I am not OK with .xml with ipr="full200902". </div><div>I am marginally OK if it were ipr="none" with appropriate comment but we cannot change the past, so the only option seems to be removing them.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in">3. Put explanatory note in the XML files that they are not official and ipr="..." and other tags are there just to satisfy the tools. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Agreed</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Good. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in">4. Use ipr="none" instead of ipr="full200902" in the XML file. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Agreed. And we should say that the “Notices” section contains the pertinent IPR information.</span></p></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>I take the second sentence as the comment to the XML comment. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in">5. Put the link to the OpenID IPR Policy to the text "<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The OpenID Intellectual Property Rights policy"</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I would not include links to specific IPR documents in the comment because we update these from time to time. If you want to say anything in the comment, you
could just say that current versions of the OpenID IPR Policy and Process documents can be found at <a href="http://openid.net" target="_blank">openid.net</a>. The board has already decided that the text in the Notices section is sufficient in this regard.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, it is important to record under which version of IPR it was composed of since "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,charcoal,helvetica,arial,sans-serif">The OpenID Intellectual Property Rights policy"</span> may be revised. Not putting the link or at least the year in the Notice text seems to be a simple oversight. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers, </div><div><br></div><div>Nat</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> -- Mike<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:openid-board-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-board-bounces@lists.openid.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-board-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-board-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nat Sakimura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 11, 2014 7:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> openid-board<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [OpenID board] Making statement that XML sources of the specs are unofficial<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Dear board members, </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I have found out that the XML source code for our specifications are having the following. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><?rfc ipr="full200902"> and <?rfc private="Final"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">which indicates that the file follows IETF's IPR rather than OpenID Foundation's, and it is a private note and not a public document. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">As I found out, it was put there to satisfy the tool that we are using: xml2rfc. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In the time of OpenID Authentication 2.0, it was using <?rfc ipr="full3978">. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">It is fine as long as these files are unofficial tool only, but there is no indication of it as it stands now. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Further investigation lead me to find out that these XML files were not recorded in official <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/</a> folder
before OpenID Connect. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In addition, I have found out that there is no link from the Connect specs to the OpenID IPR Policy although there is a verbal mention of it in the Copyright statement. The
reference is not there so the readers cannot find what it is. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">This lead me to think that we probably need to take the following actions: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>1.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Declare clearly in <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/</a> that HTML files are authoritative and others are not. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>2.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Remove all XML files from <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/</a>. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>3.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Put explanatory note in the XML files that they are not official and ipr="..." and other tags are there just to satisfy the tools. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>4.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Use ipr="none" instead of ipr="full200902" in the XML file. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>5.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Put the link to the OpenID IPR Policy to the text "</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The OpenID Intellectual Property
Rights policy"</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">My proposal for the XML Comment is as follows: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div style="border:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:4pt 8pt;background:rgb(245,245,245)">
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;white-space:pre-wrap;border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;word-wrap:normal;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u> <u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)"><!--</span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">NOTE on this XML File. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u> <u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">This XML file is a tool to produce the authoritative copy of OpenID Foundation spec. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">The authoritative copy is the HTML, and the corresponding XML source is not authoritative. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">The statement that ipr="none" is here only to satisfy the tool. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">The IPR of this document is OpenID IPR Policy found at </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)"><a href="http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_IPR_Policy_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf" target="_blank">http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_IPR_Policy_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf</a> </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">and governed by OpenID Process found at </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)"><a href="http://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2010/01/OpenID_Process_Document_December_2009_Final_Approved.pdf" target="_blank">http://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2010/01/OpenID_Process_Document_December_2009_Final_Approved.pdf</a>. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">The directive private="..." is here only to satisfy the tool and desired HTML output. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">This is a public OIDF document and not an individual private memo as private="..." indicates. </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style="border:none;padding:0in;background:rgb(245,245,245)"><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(153,153,136)">--></span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Courier;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">This is supposed to be put in at the top of the file right after the DOCTYPE declaration. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">And my proposal for the /specs/ pages is to put the following after the first paragraph. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NOTE: HTML files are the authoritative version. All other formats are provided for the convenience of the readers. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Please discuss. After some discussion time, I will craft a motion for the email vote. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Nat Sakimura (=nat)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chairman, OpenID Foundation<br>
<a href="http://nat.sakimura.org/" target="_blank">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a><br>
@_nat_en<u></u><u></u></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Nat Sakimura (=nat)<div>Chairman, OpenID Foundation<br><a href="http://nat.sakimura.org/" target="_blank">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a><br>@_nat_en</div>
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