<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>I don't think the proposal goes against that, but as I said earlier think that we're talking about enough interconnected pieces of the process that we should address them together to be most effective. It sounds like we should work on compiling a larger list of issues with the current process and maybe have a F2F meeting trying to resolve as many as possible.<div><br></div><div>--David</div><div><br>----- "Mike Jones" <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> wrote:
<br>>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">While this discussion has mostly been about “false positives”, I’m
also concerned about the “false negative” case, which is the main reason we
introduced the community vote for working group creation in the first place.
The current policy was explicitly designed so that the community could vote to
create a working group, even though the specs council didn’t recommend it. I
hope there’s no disagreement that the community should have the final say in
this case.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> --
Mike</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> board-bounces@openid.net
[mailto:board-bounces@openid.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)<br>>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 27, 2009 7:21 PM<br>>
<b>To:</b> board@openid.net<br>>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID board] Allen Tom's proposal on WG formation</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 02/28/2009 03:00 AM, Martin Atkins: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike Jones wrote: <br>>
<br>>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The problem with this proposal
is that it removes the community’s voice from the spec creation process.
Our members should always be given the option to vote NOT TO create a working
group as well as the option to vote TO create one. Otherwise, a working
group can be created by a very small group of insiders, without the community
serving as a check & balance. <br>>
<br>>
The current procedure, by design, always gives the community a voice, and the
final say. I believe we got this principle right the first time. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>>
Your objection seems to consider that there are some disadvantages to the
existance of a working group. Would you mind enumerating what you consider
these to be? <br>>
<br>>
As far as I can tell, the existence of a working group is mostly harmless. It
consumes some resources in the sense that it has a mailing list and it requires
votes to be made, but that seems like minimal overhead. <br>>
<br>>
Could it be sufficient to simply vote on the final spec rather than on the
creation of the working group in the first place? If the community doesn't like
the result, it can veto the completed spec rather than the idea that drove that
spec. <br>>
<br>>
In practice, I'd expect that a working group would get a general idea of
whether it is popular or not during its working phase, so some working groups
may "die out" due to lack of interest before they even get to the
voting phase. <br>>
<br>>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>>
I find Mike's proposal interesting. How can a spec at final approval be voted
down, considering that the same mechanism is applied for approving a spec as
well?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Signer: </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Eddy Nigg, <a href="http://www.startcom.org" target="_blank">StartCom Ltd.</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://blog.startcom.org" target="_blank">Join the Revolution!</a></p>
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